A man in enlisted service dress blues gets his cover autographed at the Adult Entertainment Expo earlier this month in Las Vegas. He wasn’t the only one who attended the event in what appeared to be full Navy uniform. (Submitted photo)
Four men wearing enlisted service dress blues attended a Las Vegas expo filled with porn stars. And a Utah National Guardsman has the pics to prove it.
The picture-taker, a 29-year old specialist who requested his full name not be used and attended the event out of uniform, said he was in the crowd Jan. 19 at the Adult Entertainment Expo at the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino when he noticed the quartet.
“There’s something wrong with these pictures,” said the tipster who sent the above image — and other pictures, including some less suitable for publication. “It’s awesome that these [adult film stars]support [the military], but that’s not what the uniform’s for.”
The uniform-wearers aren’t sporting name tags or command tabs in any of the photos, but at least two have ribbon racks. One wears the rating badge of an information systems technician third class; another, with a ribbon rack three rows deep, wears an E-5 badge — possibly of a fire controlman, but the picture’s not focused on his sleeve.
And neither was anybody else.
One photo shows the four men standing behind three porn stars — one man, two women in lingerie — at an autograph table, all signing what appear to be “Dixie cup” covers. One of the actresses is wearing a Dixie cup.
Other photos show the covers with multiple signatures of adult-film stars — names like Lexi Belle and Jessica Andrews that you probably shouldn’t put into a web search engine during business hours.
“That was kind of a red flag,” the guardsman said of the hat autographs. “I mean, you have to go out wearing those again. What are you doing?”
Another photo shows one of the uniformed men with his arm around another actress, wearing an unautographed Dixie cup along with a white corset and a short black skirt. Promotional posters are visible in the background of many of the pictures, featuring partially and/or completely naked porn stars.
The guardsman said he noticed the men were wearing the wristbands given to the rest of the general-admission attendees, which made it clear to him they weren’t special guests, or possibly stars promoting an adult film with a prior-service, detail-oriented costume department.
“They waited in line like everybody else,” said the tipster, who spoke with other out-of-uniform military people — in service and retired — in attendance who expressed similar amazement. “These guys know they’re not supposed to be here [in uniform].”
Under DoD Instruction 1334.1, service members are prohibited from wearing the uniform in situations “when wearing of the uniform may tend to bring discredit upon the Armed Forces.” Even former service members are restricted to wearing their old uniforms to “military funerals, memorial services, weddings and inaugurals,” as well as “patriotic parades” involving military units.
As our resident legal expert put it when asked in a February 2012 column, “If you even need to think of the question, don’t wear your uniform.”
The photographer said such apparent disregard for uniform codes prompted him to submit his pictures, not some notion of service rivalry: “It was no grudge against any branch. It didn’t matter. It was just the uniform.”
If the uniform-wearers are active-duty sailors, do they deserve to be punished? Is this guardsman just out to smear the Navy? Would wearing a uniform to this event be worse than wearing it to a political gathering or a protest march, events specifically listed as off limits in the DoD instruction?
Leave your thoughts below. Please don’t bring discredit upon anybody.
107 Comments
There is nothing wrong with what the sailors did. people need to learn to mind their own business and stop trying to generate trouble where there is none.
They were idiots and should know better. They should get a slap on the hand… But definitely not worth throwing the book at them.
I often feel the need to point out that the clause, “when wearing of the uniform may tend to bring discredit upon the Armed Forces”, is so vague and subjected to an individual’s interpretation. These men did nothing wrong, except perhaps deface the uniform with autographs on their dixie cups – unless those were EXTRA dixie cups, not to be worn in uniform.
Also, if the picture-taker was so concerned with “discredit” being placed upon any individual or organization at a porn convention, then perhaps he shouldn’t have made it known that he was there. Granted, he asked for his whole name not to be released, but that doesn’t excuse the fact that he was there, and feels that his presence at a porn convention brings discredit upon hisself. Perhaps he should worry more about his own credibility and not of those individual Sailors who feel no discredit whatsoever being in the presence of porn actresses.
So, Service members can wear their uniforms when they attend Sporting events, or other conventions, but when it’s Adult ENTERTAINMENT (key word, entertainment.) It brings “discredit upon the uniform”? Porn is an entertainment industry, not a dating service (or worse, prostitution service.). Those men were there as fans, and service members wear their uniforms frequently to events. Typically it’s done for the purpose of getting attention… but who cares? If you think Porn is so naughty it is disgraceful to the uniform, you probably shouldn’t be going to an Expo.
They didn’t break any laws. For the military news to question this, after they allow homosexuals to serve in the military, is purely hypocritical.
If you’re going to allow same sex marriages, force heterosexuals to share showers and berthing with homosexuals, you have NO right to point the finger at a sailor LEGALLY partaking in ANY EVENT!
I don’t think they should have worn their uniforms… due to that it “could” be seen as a discedit to the armed forces. They just should have known better… when in doubt don’t wear your uniform. Should they get in real trouble, no…
Considering that the CINC aggressively supports gay men to act like gay men around straight men, then it is no surprise that straight men want to be straight around beautiful women.
Please, this is just plain sour grapes, because the sailors got a LOT of positive attention
Instead of taking pictures, intentionally aimed at self gratitude and recognition…WHY did the guardsman not simply do the mature thing and walk up to the Sailors and advise them of his concern? Bringing it to such light was absolutely not necessary! I guess they do things different in the “guard”world!
Snitchy bitch.
These guys are idiots. You dont wear the uniform to something like this. Most of the guys I served with never wore the uniform when in a liberty status, the only ones who did, only did so to bring attention to themselves. These guys wearing the uniform to something like this is both attention seeking and conduct unbecoming.
To those who would say that these guys did no wrong, that the conference was legal, I would ask this: why is it that military members cannot wear the uniform to protests to speaking engagements unless in an official capacity? Because wearing the uniform to such events would imply military support. Given the recent crackdown on pornographic contraband across services, I seriously doubt this is any different.
These guys were idiots who should face NJP just for the general reason of being stupid, and conduct unbecoming besides.
As a Chief, I would have gone up and said something to a Sailor, or any member of the Armed Forces, that I thought was bringing discredit. However, I would never take a picture and give it to a reporter. Thats just not how things are done.
To those who don’t think this is wrong, sodomy is prohibited in the UCMJ… It is a rule that many do not enforce as long as evidence of the misconduct is not created ..IE. Photos. Since photos were taken, it will be likely this sailor will face disciplinary action. He won’t lose his job but he will have some money and time taken away from him. Our oppinions matter not, his Captain’s opinion is what really matters.
I personally don’t see an issue with it.
Things may have changed a bit, but in ’88 I was on the Nimitz for her first West-Pac. As such, we visited many ports for her first time, manning the rails and wearing dress uniforms for the first day in port. I have personally worn my dress blues in the red light districts of many ports, while conducting “business” with the local talent, or while getting very drunk and potentially disorderly.
We were allowed to be Sailors then, but like I said, sadly, things may have changed a bit.
Whether or not they brought discredit to themselves or not (that is a personal opinion) it is clearly not a against UCMJ. I’d love to see his Capt. or anyone else try to prove that – when our SECDEF gave gays the right to attend a homosexual parade (complete with MardiGras activities if you’re getting where I’m going with this) in FULL uniform. Whether you agree at this point or not doesn’t matter – precedence has been set. Good luck rolling it back.
No need for any trouble, while the repeal of DADT homosexual men and women hay march and participate in “Gay Pride Parades” which is is a sence an official function. Why are these Sailors in good taste enjoying an adult entertainment expo. Any action from here is purly KNEE JERK, AKA Reactive!
If Gays can wear the uniform in a gay parade what is wrong with this? Nothing.
So, what does Vegas say regarding the odds on how long until the Navy rolls out a ridiculously reactionary policy regarding this? Would I have worn my uniform to something like this? No; however, I am not going to vilify these kids for doing so because, in the end, it really does not matter.
Pictures taken by Utah National Guardsman, OMG is he a Mormon. If he is he will be drummed out of the state. BTW why was HE there? And with a camera to boot.
What’s the problem? They allow homosexuals to wear their uniforms in Gay Pride parades, before Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was repealed. And since it was done before the repeal, it was a violation of the UCMJ, and nothing was done. Can’t have it both ways.
Well I distinctly remember a picture coming out with in the last year of a former President taking his picture with three Adult Film Actresses in Spain. Although he may not have a uniform he represents the United States so how does the litmus test go?
I personally think our service and our uniforms are held in higher regard than the highest office in our country but it seems the general public doesn’t think so.
These Sailors should have a lesson in etiquette and appropriate wear but nothing more. We are at a time when the military recruiters can pick and choose who they recruit so much so I can’t get my sons into the service in the rates they want without pulling teeth. This is a non-issue remember “we are a reflection of society” and in a “electronic sexual revolution” where this type of behavior will be seen as normal in 10 years.
my five cents
They did nothing wrong. The AVN’s where these guys were, the girls are clothed but with little material. The Hotel and the convention center will escort the girls out if they get out of hand. We do not know the whole story. Were they just passing through and found out about the convention? Was it a planned trip? Was this their hotel?
When we were in port in Spain, a bunch of us went to the beach area and have pictures of us and some topless locals. When we got back to the boat, everyone showed off the pics. We were in dress whites.
The mistake these guys made was wearing their uniform to a traditionally heterosexual event. If it had been a gay porn event, no problem.
Come on….It’s not like they were involved in TailHook!!!
In addition to my 2 comments above (#3,4), I will add this:
-Wearing a uniform at a political event is detrimental to the democratic process, as it may unintentionally imply that the government supports a particular outcome of the political event (eg.: candidate, new legislation, etc.).
-Wearing your Dress uniform at a 100% legal and non-political event while on liberty, while ACTING appropriately and orderly does NOT, in any way, bring discredit upon the US Armed Forces.
–Now, if they had been groping the females in public (consensual OR NOT) and participating in sexual activities in public while in uniform, then we’d be having an entirely different conversation, while deeply entrenched in the “discredit” category.
…that being said, I was fully against Uniformed Service Members participating in the politically-charged Gay Pride Parade in San Diego last year for the very reason that it was, and still is, politically-charged. That is, until the DOMA is ruled unconstitutional by the SCOTUS. After that decision, if it ever happens, then Gay Pride parades will no longer be politically-charged, but more of a celebration of equality, as the celebrations of MLK’s birthday and Black History Month now are.
They should be punished. They were in the wrong. If you are that stupid to be in uniform and have porn stars sign your covers then you deserve whatever comes your way. Even if it was a gay porn event its still the same. A parade and an event like that are totally different. We sailors need to stop doing stupid things because it is not just a reflection on just one branch it is a reflection of us all. Frankly I am tired of looking bad because of others.
Well played young sailors, you saw an opportunity and seized it.
The Nattering Nabobs of Negativity: get over yourselves
They were attending an industry convention (a legal industry I might add). There is nothing indicating that they behaved in any manner other than appropriate.
The Guardsman is a coward, if he/she felt it was inappropriate, then he/she is obligated to do something about it.
Cece~ how would you define “stupid things”… they were having fun, not hurting anyone, not acting in a manner that would bring discredit to the service…
there is nothing wrong with this. It is just as equal to being in NYC for fleet week
People are over-thinking this:
Porn and Porn Events = Legal
Politacal Events = Illegal
Buying a coke at the grocery store = Legal
Buying cocain from a Puerto Rican cab driver = Illegal
See the difference? Just because YOU are offended doesn’t make it wrong.
there is nothing wrong but knowing the military they will try to build a case anyway such a pitty cid is always borad but when it comes to sex period that is one area the military is so hypocritical besides the US military is a laughing joke and a slave to the president and all members of congress get one thing in mind OBAMA AND CONGRESS HAVE PLANS FOR YOU IT IS CALLED THE BIG BOOT IN YOUR ASS THEY DON”T GIVE A DAM ABOUT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY YOUR ARE JUST A PAWN FOR THE RICH MANS DIRTY WORK PERIOD
WAIT TILL MARCH ! WHICH IS 30 days away
Brian Harrington USN not RET
Guardsman was jealous he didn’t think of wearing his uniform. DOD allowed Gay and Lesbian Sailors to wear their uniforms at a “Gay Pride Parade.” So if gays can wear their uniform in support of their sexuality, why can’t straights wear their uniform in support of their sexuality? How about the guardsman approaching the sailors and letting them know how he felt about it and then minding his own f#cking business instead of ratting out the sailors to get his name in Navy Times.
So, this guy attends the SAME convention,(which is being held at a Hard Rock which is NOT off limits OR brings discredit onto the Navy) but because the sailors wore their uniform, somehow he is more of a Saint then they are? Please, he is a coward for not stating his name and not addressing THE NAVY with the photos and not the press. What is his REAL motive for doing this, and why not be professional and say “Hey guys we are all military here, what you are doing is not really cool”. Get a life……
It needs to be understood, when we put on the military uniform its business. I know those guys were taught better and know better. Things like this are why the Navy has the reputation it does. Like it or not, we represent each other with that uniform on and I’m sorry to say that not how I want to be seen.
I’ve never responded to a publication, but this one caught my eye. While I fully support this convention and really don’t care who goes to places like this (Heck I’d go if I lived there). I do believe that wearing a uniform in a situation like this brings discredit upon the military service. I’m about as liberal as they get, but when it comes to a military uniform even I refused to go to places like “Hooters” in it. Not because I think “Hooters” is a bad place, I actually love it, but because of the “perception” it would bring to some people. These young sailors need to learn more respect in order to keep our traditions alive.
These Sailors deserve a NAM. Im sure there are a few Chiefs and Officers that go around and smack their wives around and then come to work and harp on the Blue Shirts about professionalism.
It’s okay to go to Gay Pride rallies in uniform so these gentlemen need not worry.
Does anyone remember Patton’s comment about men who wouldn’t drink or F*@^?
I understand the rules but the fact that this man “the tipster” is in the National Guard and did not have the Audacity to walk up to a fellow military member and express his concerns to the member and not talk to everyone else about it or run to the press to get a little joy in his life. I guess he did not live up to his core values. I have Military friends that are gay in the Navy and got to wear there uniform in gay parades were some civilian counterparts were wearing some outfits that would be questionable, why cant a straight man put on his uniform to a event that covers all ranges of sexuality. Ronny Lindsey, USN
Where was the command tab on those dress blues? Left shoulder is where it could have showed what command. They were unprofessional but didn’t do any thing wrong.
Nothing wrong was done here except for the envy of the guardsmen who is in their business.. What a jerk going out of his way to make trouble. Mind your own, don’t start none, and defend the Constitution you jerk. Just like getting in all your neighbors business or wanting to be the president of your HOA.
Lets be completely honesty the National Guard guys was upset that the sailors not only getting extra hands on attention just might have wound up on a date with one of those girls. He was just upset he did not think of it first.
This whistleblower was clearly jealous of the attention that these Sailors were getting at the convention. If he were smart enough to realize the perks associated with wearing a military uniform these days, this wouldn’t even be an issue, because he would’ve remembered to wear his and would probably have been standing right with the others. Wearing a military uniform at an adult film convention does not bring discredit upon a branch of service in any way. Adult films may still be taboo with some generations in our nation, but it is not illegal. Hell, I travel to cities hosting Fleet Week, just so I can party in my uniform and enjoy similar perks. As trying as times are for active duty servicemen these days, why do we need to make it worse by being uptight and “holier-than-thou”? This wouldn’t have been an issue if the whistleblower (who cowardly declined to give his name) hadn’t sent in any photos. Thank you Blue Falcon
Would this of been a question if they had been at a gay pride parade? Not that I care, just guessing there is a double standard.
I cant beleive this non-active duty service member is trying to dime people out. He doesnt have the spine to serve active duty so there for shut up. Let them be, they didn’t bring discredit to the service. They attended an expo. Were people having sex during the expo, no were they engaged in anything unappropriate, no. So why is this even a story? That guradsman was at the same place as those Sailors so he must have saw nothing wrong with the venue. STOP SNITCHING!!!
Why does guys in uniforms at a porn show discredit the Navy. They have more integrity than those hiding their profession. Let’s make all politicians wear uniforms and see how many if them were there in our tax dollars. Leave our military men & women alone.
The Guardsman proves his inexperience with the Navy uniform. He commented on the idea that the Sailors were having their whitehats autographed and that they would have to leave with that on there. Well, we also write our names on the inside of the whitehat for possession identification and his pictures show that it is the inside rim of the whitehat that is being autographed. So they’re not going to look like complete morons as he implies, not that it justifies the whole deal, but at least the boys were doing what I would’ve done if I had been in that situation.
Service members should only wear uniforms for military functions. That way there isnt any question or concern. The people who wear their uniforms to these types of events due so just to get attention. If they were a mid-level manager at McDonalds, would they have worn their uniform?
Any surprise that idiots who do this are all national guard or reservists?! Hello weekend warriors–you guys have absolutely no clue what you’re doing. Please stop discrediting the real soldiers, sailors, and airmen who actually do this full time.
I can’t wear the uniform to a political rally, a gambling establishment (to gamble), a strip club, or a whole host of other locations. I accepted this when I raised my right hand and swore an oath. Having attended the AVN convention, it is not about porn, it is about the appropriate wear of the uniform. I do believe that these sailors should be punished just as if they had worn uniforms to any of the other venues.
I personally wouldn’t have worn my uniform. Not because it’s “wrong”, but because I’ve been in long enough to know that someone is ALWAYS watching. Doesn’t matter where you are or what you are doing, there will be someone there with either prior service or active and they’ll be ready to pounce. These sailors, especially the E-5, should have known better.
Pat them on the back and give em a Flag Letter of Commendation! Brave men in the line of duty!
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All the other bullshit is just that. No different than when FORCED to go on liberty in some port in uniform, whereby you hit the clubs, bars, whorehouses, etc… in UNIFORM.
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Geez… lets get back to the SEQUESTOR or the fact that POTUS is “quadrupling” the rates of TRICARE….
Kick the NG in the balls while at it for whining like a DADT victim.
So wearing a uniform to march in a Gay Pride parade is OK according to the CO, but attending an Adult Entertainment Expo is bad?
The convention was a perfectly legal venue. If people are gonna have a problem with with connecting the uniform to the Porn industry, then maybe the Navy needs to disenfranchise it’s self from the WWII sexual assault on times square that everyone loves. (the sailor dipping and kissing the random girl)
REALLY, we are worried about this? Don’t you think there are more important things to worry about in this country then SAILORS in uniform going to a porn star convention in Vegas. Someone is jealous, that they did not think of it first.
It’s not like they were breast feeding in public.
But I’m sure the TV media will be talking about this very soon.
That NG has way too much time on his hands.
It seems to me that the people who take offense to these sailors actions would not have been at a porn convention anyway.
What about pride in uniform? These gentlemen should be proud to serve their country and we should support that. If they want to wear their uniform ANYWHERE, they should be able to do so without fear of being flogged in the streets. As long as they aren’t breaking the law, go for it. They are defending the rights of a free country….and that includes the right to have a porno convention. If it isn’t good enough for our sailors, it shouldn’t be good enough for anyone. What if they wear a T-shirt that says GO NAVY? Does that bring discredit to the service? We have much bigger issues than this to worry about than this folks. Peace, OUT!!!!
It is not alright to be human and serve in the military. Keep in mind these kids are probablly fresh out of high school and boot camp and were not aware of the rules and regulations stated above. More then likely it was 4 teenage boys and there first time away from their mom and dad. The military is not what it use to be , starting next monday they will be testing people to see if you were drinking the night before they came into work , i remember when my buddies and me would grab a beer durring lunch , come back to work and still be fine throughout the work day .
14. Eric said “To those who don’t think this is wrong, sodomy is prohibited in the UCMJ… It is a rule that many do not enforce as long as evidence of the misconduct is not created ..IE. Photos. Since photos were taken, it will be likely this sailor will face disciplinary action. He won’t lose his job but he will have some money and time taken away from him. Our oppinions matter not, his Captain’s opinion is what really matters”
SODOMY??? REALLY??? How does going to a public convention equate to sodomy???
this is a whole lot of hoolpa being made of a whole lot of nothing…
people need to get a grip.
I find this no less offensive than all those who were allowed to march in the annual San Diego Gay Pride parades while in uniform. In my opinion, neither should be tolerated, but in allowing one, the PC guided leaders lose the moral high ground to enforce discipline to stop the other.
I’m wondering about the Info-Tech guy. If he’s a big fan of porn, is he watching it on the job (taking advantage of his position and exemption from filters banning access to porn sites)?
Seems if its okay for strip clubs and gentlemen’s clubs to advertise in naval station newspapers, just like the local baseball teams and movie theaters, and plumbers, and its okay for an active duty member to go out in public in uniform, whether it be to the pizza store, the movie theater, a ball game or even strip club, then it’s okay for an active duty member to visit such an entertainment expo that is open to the public in uniform. It’s the service member’s behavior at such an event that is most important. I bet that Utah National Guardsman would have had Faith Hill or Garth Brooks, or Dan Marino sign his cover, or his t-shirt, if he got to meet them! Would I do it, no, but, it passes the 60 Minutes (how would it look if it was on the show 60 Minutes) test for me, and I have done 3 XO tours. Sorry Guardsman, if it wasnt bad enough for you to say something on the spot, it was probably not bad enough, or your moral compass needs checking.
Well I guess the “Band of Brothers” ideals, where you don’t rat on comrads is no more, in this Politically Correct military we now have. Also this Coward of a Guardsman not wanting his full name used proves the “PC” attitude. I guess what is done in Vegas does not stay in Vegas any longer. I hope these sailors CO is not going to make a big deal of this and try to get promoted off this. In the old days this Guardsman might have tripped down a flight of stairs after taking the pictures.
Are you kidding me! Were they engaged in any activity that was wrong??? No they were there men will be men, unless they’re men wanting men oh wait that’s ok now!
If attendance in uniform at a gay parade as a spectator or participant is okay what is wrong with attending a convention? So what it’s a porn convention who hasn’t had porn underway at some point if you say you didn’t you’re lying!
Why the guardman didn’t provide his name….I don’t see any wrong with wearing the uniform…..ahoy
To everyone who said there is nothing wrong with what they did: If you are a civilian who as never been associated with the military, please understand we fall under a second legal system in addition to the Constitution that regulates our actions to ensure we maintain a ethnic, positive representation of the Military and United States. Wearing your Uniform to a Porn Exhibition is strictly illegal and immorale for us, and those Sailors know that.
If you are in the military or previously served and you do not see why this is wrong, it is probably for the better you are no longer in the service – we have no place for people like you. If you are currently serving, I know you know better. I would recommend you ETS/Retire asap and get a job at McDonald’s.
Eric, you have no idea what you’re talking about to accuse these Sailors of sodomy just because they wore their blues to the expo. I don’t think they should have worn their uniforms, and they deserve a talking to by their Chief (maybe he wore his civvies to the event) and maybe a “Saturday Morning Fashion Show” since they couldn’t wear their blues right in the first place. Ever been to NYC during Fleet Week in the 80s/90s?
But I really think the Guadsman should of had the balls to approach them and voice his concern, not snap pics to send to Navy Crimes. No wonder Abu Ghraib got blown out of proportion so badly…
No wrong was done. It was a legal entertainment activity. Can you go to church in uniform? A baseball game? Leave your morals out of this argument. Legal. Entertainment. Nuff said.
I agree that the actions by the four sailors was reprehensible, and they definitely were in violation of DoD Instruction 1334.1. However is an instruction considered the same as an order from D.O.D., and is it known to service members?
I agree they should be punished, under the U.C.M.J., under the General Article, however, I would suggest only a Company Level Article-15 or equivalent Captain’s Mast, which will at the most, cause forfeiture of 1/2 months pay, reduction of one rank for E-4 and below, 14 days restriction, 14 days extra duty, and will not remain in their permanent record.
Let this be a learning lesson for them and the rest of the members of the Armed Forces about the wear of the uniform when it would bring discredit upon the honor of the military, the most honorable job in the United States of America.
WOW….attention cadets at the Military school of Information Psyops Operations. What does this article and comment section actually instruct you about information war fare. Think how this article was run on the same day Former Admiral Mike Mullen was hired by GM and look at those comments.!? Now think carefully cadets, how would John Stewart or Colbert use such information to blast how the story concerning Al Gore’s coverage on Politico is on the same day..!?
Then cadets, look at this article and really think about what is NOT being divulged..?
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/01/31/pentagon_doesn_t_know_if_it_s_buying_iranian_oil_in_afghanistan
What really discredits a uniform or our service MEMBERS..!?
Really think…….
You mean that Mike Mullen can go to work for GM (Big OIL) and Al Gore can sell to Qatar (Big OIL) and Hillary Clinton can go to a country (big Oil) and say “We Came, We Saw..and HE Died” in direct violation of the tenets of the “Art of War” and not think someone would be killed in retaliation..??
Cadets, how laughable is this article when these sailors get pictures from ladies who support BABY OIL…!?! (Matter of fact: Where does Baby Oil come from?)
This type of information war fare is so brilliant it almost makes you want to cuss…!! Think really hard cadets and re-read the “Art of War”. Does anyone really think that Mike Mullen did not know WHERE and WHO his fuel was being purchased from…!?! AL GORE…?? Hillary Clinton..!?!
These four chaps and the person concerned enough to take a picture deserve a medal for informational awareness from General George S. Patton himself…!!!
Class…dismissed….!!
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Hell, if Christy Canyon were there….and would sign uniforms…..I’d have worn my mess dress chokers!
Seriously, though, this is much ado about nothing. Was it the most sensible thing to attend in uniform, probably not. Did it honestly violate the UCMJ, I really don’t think so. That said, in this day and age of political correctness, I have NO DOUBT senior leadership will now press forth with an initiative to beat us to death with more “Trafficking in Person” training….. *retches*
Seriously, ANYONE who thinks that this brings a “discredit” upon the uniform is spouting their personal agenda. I PERSONALLY think it is dispicable to wear the uniform to a gay pride event, but thats my personal opinion and thus the reason the DoD directive is so vague. It allows for flexibility in its administration. This is not a black and white issue, if they stayed within the confines of being respectable and upstanding citizens then no harm, no foul.
As far as the signing of the covers, if they are signed on the inside (much in the same manner we stencil them) then the autograph is not visible while worn as part of the uniform. As a flyer, we wear “motivational” patches hidden under our “legal” patches ALL the time. If one of these fine Sailors decided to try and step foot out of the convention hall and don a cover that exposed the autograph, a thorough ass chewing would have ensued. But its likely these Sailors may have been in town for business and this just so happened to be on the way back and at the same hotel they were lodging at, in which case they would have never had to don their covers enroute to their room.
It is not ours to judge in the court of opinion and it was NOT this Guardsman’s duty to pass judgement and send it to the gallows of the press for execution. It is sheer cowardice behavior to not have the manhood to say something to the individuals if in his “opinion” it was wrong. To which I personally would have told him I would “take it under advisement” or “roger that” (aka piss up a rope).
Sadly, in the end their punishment will lie in the hands of an individual CO and what his “opinions” and beliefs are. I just hope he is not a devote bible thumper who will crucify them cause its not his cup of tea.
Since when is it against instruction to go to a strip club in your dress/liberty uniform? Now, going to a prostitution establishment is against the rules – even in civvies – but a strip club?
Additionally, military uniforms are not strictly business, unless it is a working uniform. Dress uniforms are for general liberty and Dress occasions.
These men did absolutely nothing wrong – unless their signed dixie cups were the ones they were wearing with their uniforms.
As for their lack of Unit Identification Markers (command tags), 1) Perhaps they were in a ‘C’ School after being advanced to E4 out of their ‘A’ School, and did not have a UIM, or 2) these days, it is commonplace (though against regs) for many Sailors who check into a command to not have UIMs on their uniforms for a year or more without confrontation.
I do not see how these men did anything wrong. This was a perfectly legal event and just bc the women were in bikinis or lingere how is that any different then the Miss America pagent? If this “Guardsmen” was so concerned he should have confronted the youngmen with his concern instead of stalking them at the event and snapping pictures to send to a reporter. That to me he was just trying to start trouble and maybe jealous that none of the girls looked his way
I see a lot of posts comparing this to the SECDEF’s permission to wear the uniform in San Diego’s Gay Pride Parade. I am a gay Navy Veteran and I think that was a VERY bad call on his part. Gay Servicemen and women just want to be accepted for their abilities, NOT their sexuality. However, I can empathize with those who wore their uniform. They are/were PROUD to serve and PROUD of who they are and were finally able to show it.
Now, as for the person that took the photos, the four should sue him for using their pictures without their permission!!!
I have a great deal of respect for National Guardsmen, but there’s a reason that we never invited them on liberty with us.
So long as they weren’t stripping, or acting like fools, I see nothing wrong here. You prudes who say they should be punished are puritanical and probably still view sex as only a tool to procreate… Grow up. We’re adults.
Easy solution…quit wearing uniforms for anything but military functions!! I say fix the real problem..what is being done to the idiot that took the pictures and sent them to the paper? What he did doesn’t fit the core values of the military..he apparently knew it wasn’t right or he would’ve given them his whole name. He was there too…what does that say about him? I think wearing the military uniform dignifies the service of an individual to their country..provided their behaviors reflect the same. Times change…rules change..the bottom line is their behaviors reflected no disrespect to the military..Patrick #59 hit the nail on the head..and what I say to the “whistle blower”..leave the drama for your mama!!!!
Four enlisted sailors proud to wear their dress blues in public. I would like to see it happen more often. B.Z.!
So a Gay/Lesbian service member can march in a Gay Pride Parade in uniform to express their sexuality??? But a service member attends a porn convention in uniform and they should have the UCMJ thrown at them? I call BS!
How times have changed. What happened to the glory days when this was not only acceptable but encouraged. Enough with the political correctness and let sailors be Sailors. If they needed to have sticks up their asses they would have joined the Airforce. With the amount of corruption in every branch commanders should be elated for a little nostalgic publicity.
One thing we can all agree on, uniformed sailors marching in a gay parade or appearing at a rally, is a political act and there appearance there, is an appearance. They are putting themselves on show at a public spectacle that is designed to attract attention to a cause, that they hope will be favorable.
These guys just shaking hands with porn stars and getting autographs are there to enjoy the entertainment, not to become a part of it.
Anonymous National Guard from Utah is nothing more than a low-class snitch. He clearly lacked the courage of character to NOT be a complete coward…..and to ask the other sailors about their clothing choice – or clue them in to the meaning of “discredit.”
In addition, what was HE doing there? Just curious? That fact just emphasizes HIS character.
Having said that, no uniforms should be present at any “Adult Pornographic Convention” – period. It IS, in fact, obviously “discrediting.” And no uniforms at “gay pride” parades, etc. Ridiculous.
Hell, I can remember when we had no choice but to wear our uniforms to the ‘Skivvy Houses’ we frequented. (No Civvies on Shipboard) Porn Convention? No Problem!! And keep up the Old Tradition, Fire-Controlman…… Locked-On and Tracking!!
They absolutely deserve punished. Anybody who has served should agree. If you served and think they did nothing wrong, you are a discredit to the military. These uniforms are a symbol of pride. Just because they want to get some attention doesnt make it ok. I hope they enjoy their NJP.
First let’s clarify something while this is a “porn” convention there is not sex going on it the isles, booze, drugs etc. It is mostly a bunch of people standing in line to get a woman or man’s autograph. They don’t even allow public nudity at the show and people are expelled if caught. There are posters and pictures up with nudity advertising the companies latest releases.
**BTW one of the signs at the entrance says you agree to be photographed. That is considered consent to have your picture taken and used.**
For those of you arguing it violates the UCMJ I would be very careful about that. Installation/ships Commanders can use that rule to control access to events and organizations and while you all may think that “porn” is an easy one be ready for them to start adding things to that list that you don’t agree with.
While the gay pride parade and the porn convention are not the same thing it did set a precedence and the wrong one IMHO. I have no problem with the repeal or any of that but we have strict rules against supporting causes as “military members” it doesn’t mean I can’t support it I just can’t tie it to my military service.
On my first ship back in the early 90’s the big thing was the shirts that said “It’s a Black Thing You Wouldn’t Understand” when a young sailor wore a shirt that said “It’s a White Thing You Wouldn’t Understand” he was written up and sent to mast. At mast he asked the CO what the difference was between the shirts. The CO agreed with him, banned both and
dismissed the charges.
That is the proper stance. To take no sides. When the Navy decided to play the political game and take sides it opened itself up to charges of discrimination when you try to close that door.
I can demonstrate my pride in being a gay service member by marching in a televised filmed parade in uniform but I can’t demonstrate my pride in liking porn by going to a porn convention in uniform?
How does this bring discredit upon the Armed Forces? Pornography is a legal and respected profession.
What’s next? Photos of sailors in uniform pumping gas into their cars and the outrage at how using fossil fuels brings discredit to the Armed Forces?
I would think that the main purpose of the Armed Forces, killing people, would be discredit enough that by instruction they shouldn’t even be allow to wear their uniforms while at work.
Keep your brown nose and and your book of mormon to yourself. Who are you to judge anybody, both of these guys out ranked you. My gut feeling is that you were jealous of the amount of attention they were getting. I got a feeling you are a “0” no matter what you wear. Shut up and go inflate your date youngster.
Ladies and Gentlemen, there is a very big problem in the military where there are members who treat members of the other sex as an object, and not a human being, and feel that they can have sex with anyone they want whenever they want, and regardless of whether or not they want to have sex. Pornography treats those in the materials to be treated like objects, and sets an improper culture in which members of both sexes are subjected to. That culture is pervasive in all branches of the military, CONUS and OCONUS. Since the time I joined the Army in the 1980’s pornography was specifically prohibited from being possessed in any military building, barracks or quarters, so the ban on pornography is nothing new. Jst in the last 2 months, the stories about inspections to ensure that there is no such materials in the Air Force was just conducted.
Just because it is legal, does not mean that military personnel can possess it, as when you signed your signature on the contract and raised your right hand, you surrendered your Constitutional Rights, and subjected yourselves to the Uniform Code of Military Justice a completely different set of laws.
As for the gays parading themselves in their uniforms at their “Pride Parades”, they too are in violation of that DOD Instruction, and should be receiving Article-15’s as well. America’s Military is an honorable, proud, and time honored profession. Standards are going to get tighter, and those who choose to disregard them, will find themselves outside with a Bad-Conduct or Dishonorable Discharge and the prejudices that they carry.
As to those who call him a coward, for not confronting three service members, that is called intelligence, as three on one are not good odds, even being they were sailors. The point is, the sailors were either flagrantly violating rules, or incompetent, neither of which I would want on my side having to rely on for survival. The one with all the ribbons, had to be a Petty Officer, a Noncommissioned Officer, who knew better, and as such is a disgrace to the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers. NCO’s are a brotherhood, regardless of which branch, and a single bad NCO is a black-eye to all NCO’s!
Sarge~
In the immortal words of Sgt Hulka
Lighten up Francis
Please specify exactly which rule they violated.
Until then, unbunch your grannie panties and let the boys have fun at a LEGAL function.
Real “class act” on their parts but then again why would anyone be surprised as we are watching the military be denigrated little by little by the politically correct DOD hierarchy. Maybe they should (also)
be proudly showing their faces and names so they can be appropriately recognized for their “class”?!
The Sarge, this is not the old military, where the things you described go on. I spent nearly 14 years in the US Navy from late 1998-late 2012, and while I did see fraternization involving sex, the cases where it happened were relatively few and far between (amplified during deployments). I never saw anyone with an attitude that they could sleep with whomever they wanted, whenever they wanted, even among those fraternization cases.
“Discredit” refers to an individual’s actions and portrayed disciplined character, not of going to a legal, non-political, public event. Such discredit is made both in uniform AND out of uniform. Mere attendance in uniform at an event at which you may attend out of uniform does NOT bring discredit upon the service. However, unruly and disorderly actions will.
Attendance at politically-charged events in uniform is not prohibited to prevent discredit toward the service, but to prevent the undue perception that the MILITARY service (and all of their weapons) supports a particular candidate or political outcome, so as to not offer any implication of government force upon the democratic process. Marching in a “gay pride” parade IS PROHIBITED, as it is still politically-charged, however the SECDEF caved to public influence and authorized it specifically for the San Diego “gay pride” parade last year. For this reason, not one of those service members will ever be written up on charges under Article 15.
The only thing, pornographically related, that US military service members are prohibited from attending or patronizing are prostitution establishments, even where they are legal, anywhere on the planet – including the USA. This particular rule still stands even when not in uniform.
Simply possessing pornographic material is not against the UCMJ or any established directive, however displaying it in the workplace is.
Additionally, The Sarge, if mere attendance at the Adult Exhibition Expo (AEE) brought discredit upon anyone’s character or the organizations they represent, then that National Guardsman brought discredit upon himself AND the National Guard, and should never have admitted to anyone that he was there. It is absurd to think or assert that these Sailors in uniform discredited the Navy, when they never acted in any disorderly fashion.
…The only person that I can see, from this article, that discredited themselves or their service is the National Guardsman. He did not confront the sailors regarding what he *thought* the rules were, and instead chose to purposefully attempt to defame these sailors in the press.
We got to remember that the squids and bubbleheads have a lower standard of morality than the rest of the military, but the rest of the military have forbidden wearing uniforms to any “adult” establishments (Bars, Strip Clubs, porn stores and porn theaters) and has been that way for nearly 30 years, once we went to a all volunteer military.
The Sarge Says: “We got to remember that the squids and bubbleheads have a lower standard of morality than the rest of the military” REJECTED by the NAVY obviously… must have been hard for you feelings still hurt?
Exactly what is the difference between a squid and a bubblehead?
Sarge,
As both a Squid and a Bubblehead, allow me to point out that you are full of Bovine Effluent…..
No member of the armed forces is prohibited from entering an “adult” establishment in uniform… if it were so, then almost every CO on the waterfront should be fired…
If they cannot go into a bar in uniform, would you have them prohibited from going to the Officers/CPO clubs on base?
Sarge,
remember this quote…. “It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it”
Don’t forget about the thousands upon thousands of Sailors – IN UNIFORM – entering bars and strip clubs during fleet weeks in major cities across the country.
Wearing the Naval dress uniform is fine in a liberty status as long as it does not bring discredit. There is nothing wrong with this photo. If they were wearing their NWUs (Navy Working Uniform), then that would be different as there are different guidelines on proper wear and location of wear of the NWUs. The photographer needs to have a better grasp on the rules and regulations of all branches if he is going to send the media pictures similar to this.
subdoc,
The O Club, the NCO Club, the Enlisted Club and the MWR facilities were the only exception, as they were on base, it was off-base adult establishments that we were prohibited. I know that for a fact, as I had to personally counsel a couple of my subordinates for violating the prohibition, the First Sergeant wanted to refer them to the Battalion for Field Grade Article-15’s, to make an example of them, and that would have ruined otherwise spotless military records. Luckily for them, I had enough respect from the TOP to talk him down, and allow me to take care of my soldiers. They did not violate the prohibition again, while they were under me, as I made sure they understood, I stuck my head out for them, and if they f’d up again, I will not send them to the Sergeant Major’s Office, but I would recommend a Courts-Martial for them, and the TOP was there when I counseled them, and he concurred with what I said. I do not know what the policies of the Navy are, but in the Army, you were only allowed to wear your uniform off base, for commuting or for a meal, other than that the wear off-base was prohibited.
PR1,
Apparently, either you are playing the fool or you never served in the military. So, I will go with the first option and play the part out. A “squid” is any navy personnel who serves in the surface forces of the Navy, while the “Bubblehead” is those who live and work below the bubbles of the ocean in submarines. My wife was a squid, and I have a couple of relatives who were bubbleheads.
As it seems that some of you are taking offense to the terms, that means that you have not matured enough in the military to understand that the different branches love to pick at each other, for fun. In most VFW Posts, which I am a Commander of one, we joke about the Jarheads, the Squids and Bubbleheads, the Junior Birdmen, and they love to pick on the Army Grunts, Cannon-Cockers and Treadheads. These are terms, that only military veterans are allowed to use, and if a civilian uses them then “it is on”, and as an old veteran, if they pick on one of us, they are picking at all of us, and we fight as a team.
To those serving today, please serve with distinct honor and maintain the professional image of our Armed Forces! To my fellow veterans, from the Present conflicts, back to the oldest living combat veteran, and especially my comrades who served in the Vietnam and Korean Wars, “THANK YOU & WELCOME HOME!”
Now with that said, any more comments?
The Sarge,
Military uniforms have changed much through the years, as have the rules describing their allowed and prohibited locations for wear. I entered the Navy with Dungarees, with numerous restrictions for wear, and transitioned to Utilities, with more relaxed restrictions, and then to the NWU’s (the gray/blue camouflage BDU’s) with even more relaxed restrictions (despite my personal feeling that they look like dressy pajamas and unprofessional).
Never have I seen restrictions so tight that prohibited the CrackerJacks or the Whites (Service Dress Uniforms), or the “Johnny Cash” (Winter Blues) or “Milk-man” (Summer Whites) uniforms (ALL considered “liberty uniforms”) from being worn at a bar or strip club – unless the local base or region had such restrictions and/or “off-limits” zones in the area surrounding the base.
I also know similar relaxed restrictions have occurred throughout the years among the various uniforms of the other Armed Forces.
Uniforms are never authorized to be worn on this events it disrespects the service and the mem and women that wear them
Sarge:
These sailors did nothing wrong It’s not as if they raped, beat or robbed anyone lighten up, as long as this country has had a military men in uniform has frequented strip bars; so get off your sanctimonious BS. There were times in our history when civies weren’t authorize off base to all personnel (mostly junior) They wore their uniforms to the clubs. Sarge yes we joke about Jarheads, Swabbies etc.; but you came to the Navy Times with an audience of mostly squids and tell us that we have “a lower standard of morality than the rest of the military” that is not the same as calling someone a leatherneck or a grunt. And now you’re back tracking by saying you married a sailor really? someone of “a lower standard of morality” that speaks volumes about you. Submariners have always been a cut above. Every branch of the service have fought and bleed for this country you need to show some respect.
Sarge: Air, Sub or Surface mariner at the end of the day we’re all “Squids” Go back to your armchair.
ChrishH I totally agree with your post.
It’s hard to believe this is an issue. If the military code talks about ethics then when did wearing a uniform in a gay pride parade become ethical! I would much rather see them at a porn expo then a gay pride parade.
I suspect whether or not wearing a uniform to a porn convention is deemed “illegal” will be up to their commands. Personally I hope they have relaxed commands that if they have a problem will just ask a chief to take them aside and explain that uniforms and any convention (porn, comics, furries, bronies, scrapbooking, etc.) is a bad idea. If there is someone high up in the command that is more of hard core evangelical type that feels porn is a sin, they could find their careers wrecked.
Let it go.
Hasn’t anyone learned anything after Tail-Hook, or is that ancient history and history is once again doomed to be repeated?
I don’t think healthy, red-blooded American males bestow any discredit on our Navy, but I do question the motives of some would-be paparazzi working behind the scenes in the guise of a plain-clothes Guardsman indiscriminately distributing photographs in a manner not in the best interest of the service.